KWL – 337 – Marketing Advice for Indie Authors with Kiki Chatfield

#337 – Marketing Advice for Indie Authors with Kiki Chatfield

In this episode, we are joined by Kiki Chatfield, CEO and founder of The Next Step PR. Kiki spoke with us about her PR company, why she founded it, her best marketing tips for authors, the conference she runs, Authors in the Bluegrass, and so much more!

In this episode, we are joined by Kiki Chatfield, CEO and founder of The Next Step PR. Kiki spoke with us about her PR company, why she founded it, her best marketing tips for authors, the conference she runs, Authors in the Bluegrass, and so much more! Kiki is always open to hearing from readers and authors alike and is enthusiastic about helping others as much as she can. She had so much great advice to offer during our conversation.

If you’re interested in scheduling a free 15-minute chat with Kiki to see what she and The Next Step PR can do for you, check out her booking calendar here!

Kiki recently celebrated her 10^th year in the PR market and her 9^th year of The Next Step PR, and these huge milestones are well-deserved! Kiki brought such great energy to this episode and we hope you learn a lot and take her advice to heart as you continue on your own author journey.

In this episode:

• We hear about how Kiki’s career got started, and how she went from a reader to a book blogger to an author PR expert
• Kiki talks about what The Next Step PR offers, and how she works with her clients to support and promote their works – from debut authors to established authors to authors looking to relaunching their works and more
• Kiki goes into detail about being an ARC reader and blogger, and how she was mentored by another book blogger to help get her started
• We ask Kiki what avenues of social media she focuses on, and talks to us about the ups and downs of TikTok
• Kiki talks about the importance of newsletters, and how all authors should have one
• She also gives us some great advice about what to put in your author newsletter, and how to prioritize your posting and sharing time online
• Kiki tells us about The Next Realm PR, and what the benefits and challenges are regarding PR for YA vs. adult fiction
• We get into how Kiki “follows the readers” in order to promote the authors she works with to the right readers
• We ask about genre trends, and what Kiki has noticed in terms of the romance market in particular – and the power of word of mouth she has noted in these trends
• She also talks to us about cover trends, book boxes, and subscription book services – and how these influences readers’ buying habits
• Kiki gives some great advice for authors who are looking to market their new releases and series, especially new series titles
• She talks to us about conferences, the importance of networking, enjoying yourself and being amongst your people – both readers and authors
• And much more!

Useful Links

The Next Step PR

The Next Step PR newsletter

The Next Step PR on Facebook, X, Instagram, and TikTok

Kiki on Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok and Bookbub

Mentioned in this episode:

Authors in the Bluegrass

Dark Star Con

Inkers Con

The Next Realm PR

Abbi Glines

M. L. Philpitt

The Hunt in Elusion by M. L. Philpitt

Episode Transcript

Transcription by www.speechpad.com

Rachel: Hey, writers. You’re listening to the “Kobo Writing Life Podcast” where we bring you insights and inspiration for growing your self-publishing business. We’re your hosts. I’m Rachel, promotion specialist for Kobo Writing Life.

Laura: And I’m Laura, Kobo Writing Life’s author engagement manager.

Rachel: On today’s episode, we spoke to Kiki Chatfield, the CEO and founder of The Next Step PR. The Next Step PR was created to help authors be seen and heard in this oversaturated market. Kiki loves working with all authors from all over the world, teaching, coaching, and managing their author needs to help their release be as successful as it can be.

Laura: We had a great conversation with Kiki. We spoke to her all about her PR company, The Next Step PR and why she created it, her marketing tips for authors, and the conference she runs, Authors in the Bluegrass, which is coming up in October 2024. She gave us so many insightful tips for authors that you don’t want to miss, so definitely tune in for this one.

Rachel: We are joined today by founder and CEO of The Next Step PR, Kiki Chatfield. Kiki, thank you so much for joining us today.

Kiki: Well, thank you for having me. I’m really excited.

Rachel: And we’re really excited to chat with you about all things PR. But before we start picking your brain, would you mind kicking us off by telling our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Kiki: Absolutely. My name is Kiki Chatfield, and I am based in Kentucky, but I’m an Ohio girl. I actually went to school for elementary education at EKU. And my path veered when the Kindle came out, and I became a stay-at-home mom, and then reading really took off with the Kindle.

Then I became a reader, then a blogger, and then The Next Step PR was born from networking and seeing a marketplace that really needed more pulp with PR marketing and any of those aspects I felt like there was not enough to offer. And I grew my company from the know-how, the networking. And, you know, we’re going into my tenth year in the market, and we’ll celebrate nine years as The Next Step PR next March.

So, I’m really excited to take something that I’m very passionate about. And so many people have stood behind us and cheered us on. And we just have so much fun at our company. It’s just a great place to work and be in. I get to work from home, and I get, you know, just to do what when I can and, kind of, just go from there.

Laura: And for people who might not be as experienced in publicity, can you, kind of, define it for us?

Kiki: So, this is a touchy subject for many people because I’ve been told multiple times that I’m not a true publicist. And I’m like, “Well, that’s in your opinion.” I feel like we do what we’re capable of. And as a company, we lay it all out for each client. We have different packages. We have different price ranges. Some people just want marketing. Some people want promotions.

So, publicity’s not really… I don’t really put my name on that publicist’s throne. Like, I’m very good at what I do, and I stay in my corner. We stay in our lane, and we stay in our bubble. And we make sure that, at the end of the day, the package plan that the client is signing up for, they’re getting exactly what we told them that we would do.

Rachel: Which, kind of, leads into our next question which is, what services do you and your team offer? What can clients expect when they hire The Next Step PR?

Kiki: You’re going to be here all day. So, we do everything from relaunch, debut authors to established authors to someone who has produced 65 to 70 bucks. We work with a wide range of authors.

Now, coming in, when you initially contact me, it’s an email. We do an ala carte… I know you guys can’t see me, but I’m talking with my hands. But we do an ala carte service. It breaks down all our packages. Like I said, I won’t be here all day, because, like, I could go on and on and on on all the things we offer.

So, best thing, if you’re listening and interested, is to email me at kiki@thenextsteppr.com. We send you a nice little email offering all our ala carte services. Then if you want a bigger package plan, it just states, “Hey, if you’re interested in this particular plan, let me then reply to this email and send you more details on Package 1 through 4.” We do Package 1 through 4, and then we have a flex and a half-step plan that is very popular with those clients that are on a budget, and then we have everything from the basic, debut, more established, and full-time occupancy at The Next Step PR.

Rachel: So, just a couple of options.

Kiki: You know, we set up the ARC tours, promotions. We do make some graphics. We give the client a checklist on what graphics they need to provide, what graphics we need to provide. You know, we connect authors with readership. We help organize their social media. So, if they need help with, you know, “Kiki, what do I need to be focusing on? What do I need to focus on six weeks before my release? What do I need to promote? You know, I just announced my new book.” Literally, we hold their hand through every process no matter what stage they’re in in writing.

And we have protocol. And six weeks, we do this, and we have checklists and everything from sending the ARC, setting them up with readers, and ARC is advanced reader copy for those newbies that might be listening, because I know a lot of my debut are like, “What is this terminology?” We go over terminology. We do calendars. We literally do everything we can to hold their hand. And even, like, if they need a PA, we recommend a PA. I have, like, a rolodex.

I started literally 10 years ago, because, like, I treated it like an office. If you’re going in somewhere, you need to have all these connections. So, we have a referral list on our website. And I have over 700 recommendations everywhere from form editor, editor, designer, graphics, PAs, beta-readers. We have all that at our fingertips to help our clients the best that we can.

Rachel: That’s phenomenal that you’ve accrued so many resources throughout your career.

Kiki: I was trying to be, like, ahead of the game. You know, I always, kind of, wanted three steps ahead of everything. So, that was probably one of the best calls that I’ve had outside of creating our master list because that’s a big name right now that everybody is saying and I’m like, “That was me.”

Rachel: This, kind of, makes me want to take it back just a step because you mentioned you went to school for early childhood education.

Kiki: Yes, correct.

Rachel: How did you make that jump into PR? You mentioned you, kind of, saw there was a little…like, there was that piece missing for a lot of authors. I’m just really curious what this journey looked like for you.

Kiki: So, I was in the education system for seven years. Then I had my son, and I was a stay-at-home mom so that’s where… I guess I should add this, too. I wasn’t a reader. I did not start reading till 2012, because I did not find the books. I read some, but now I’m a voracious reader. Like, I will read three to four books a week. You know, I read a lot.

So, that three years of staying at home, I could not stay at home anymore. I wanted to do something more. And that reading turned into a frenzy that turned into… I kept seeing that word, ARC, thrown out in the community, and I’m like, “What is this? I want one.”

So, the ARC, I found out, was advanced reader copies. Then I would reach out to some of these companies like myself and ask to, you know, participate in that tour. Well, back then, 10 years ago, if you were not a blogger, you were not able to participate, and that frustrated me a little bit. But I was like, “Okay, I’ll learn to blog.”

So, I put out a “help me” message on Facebook. A couple of my reader friends, because I had, you know, made friendships with people thus far. And there was this lovely lady in LA who literally was like, “I’m looking for a blogging partner, and I would love to, you know, help you and show you the way.” She literally sent me videos on how to blog, how to HTML, how do we sign up for things, and she taught me how to do that. I did that for nine months with her. Loved it but I still craved more.

So, then I teamed up in 2014 with another lady. We had another PR company. I knew the networking side, but I did not know the business side. I need someone who could handle the business until I, you know, can figure that out. So, then I already had a name for myself come 2014. I’ve been two years into this. A lot of the people I was reading for, they became clients. And we worked together for a year, and then I decided I wanted to go solo. So, I left that company in January 2015. I started my company March 2015. And, yeah, that’s, kind of, how it went, just the networking and reading.

And I love, at the end of the books, how the authors had to connect with me. Twitter was my big in with these authors when Twitter was actually fun. And I would reach out to them and let them know I read their book. And then just the excitement and how I happy I was when they were like, “Oh, my gosh, thank you.” And I’m like, “Oh, my God, that author talked to me. It was so exciting.” I still get that. I’ve been 10 years into this, and I still get so excited. I’m still a reader at the end of the day.

And that love and passion turned into this big ball of, you know, The Next Step PR. And then I don’t know if I put this in my notes with you guys, but I’m also an event host. I host Authors in the Bluegrass, which is a very successful author event that I host every other year because I am so busy with PR. I am a wife and a mom. I can’t put it on every year, so that’s why I do it every other year, and people keep begging me to do it every year. I’m like, “No, it’s not happening.” It’ll just be bigger and better every other year.

Laura: That’s awesome. So, you’re really, kind of, doing a little bit of everything over there.

Kiki: Pretty much.

Laura: You mentioned, kind of, getting your start in blogging. How would you say that kind of landscape has changed? Because now, at this point, you mentioned Twitter, too, we have so many different platforms, so now you’re probably working with people on Instagram, on TikTok. Is there one platform that you guys are, kind of, focusing on now, or is it still a little bit of everything?

Kiki: As a company, I focus it on as a whole because we are already established. Now, the newest platform, which is TikTok, the bane of my existence, sometimes I’m putting it out there it’s not my favorite. But, no, we work on all the platforms and I know there’s a new one, now Threads. It’s so overwhelming sometimes, but our main focus… Right now, we have four main focus. We focus on building our newsletter because I feel like that is very important in our master list and then we focus heavy on Instagram and TikTok.

I feel like all authors, if you are listening, you need a newsletter and a master list because if the internet died tomorrow, you still have a collection of emails to send information out when you have something news or sale, because I feel like we’re so dependent on social media that you need to be collecting your own information and not always depending on a PR company.

Even when people come in and conversations I have… Because I do a 15-minute freebie for anybody. I have that on our website and in my email that, like, you need to be collecting and building your own list. Don’t depend on somebody else. This is your business. You need to depend on yourself at the end of the day too.

Rachel: I think that’s an amazing point, especially given the way that social media is shifting right now. Like, we’ve all watched the Twitter/X adventure.

Kiki: I know.

Laura: Who even knows what it’s called at this point?

Kiki: I know, because they’re like, “Do you use birds now?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I just get in, copy and paste my copy, and get out.”

Rachel: So, I feel like having that, like, newsletter base is so important. And I know that The Next Step PR has their own newsletter. I’m curious what authors can expect when they sign up for your newsletter. What kind of information do you share?

Kiki: So, we do once a month newsletter now. We were doing twice where one was, like, news and information. The second one was, like, all our new signups. Now, we’re just doing one. Everything important we have going on, whether we’re sharing about our upcoming events, new signups, any sales and releases from our authors. We celebrate birthdays. We thank all our readers and we do, like, a birthday month celebration. You know, happy birthday to all our May babies. And I just actually created August, September, like, the rest of the year graphics for that.

It’s a celebration. We keep it positive. We have freebies, sales. Anything that our clients have going on, we add it to that newsletter. And we try to keep it as simple as possible because sometimes newsletters, if they’re too long and too much, you know, the reader gets bored. So, we make sure that they’re short and sweet but powerful and impactful with what we’re sharing.

Rachel: And do you have any advice… Outside of keeping it somewhat short and sweet and uncomplicated, but any advice for authors who are creating their own newsletter for their readers?

Kiki: I get this question all the time. They’re like, “Well, I don’t have anything going on.” I’m like, “Yeah, but you can use it as a speaking piece too. Use it like a blog,” because backstepping a little bit on the blogging situation, I love having a blog but it is a dying art now. Bloggers now are trying to keep up with the social media mass market that they can’t have time to post on five platforms and then go put all this effort into a blog. So, my biggest thing with people is, like, pick your three. Pick your three that you want to focus on and go with that because you just can’t do too much.

So, with your content in your newsletter, first thing I say is go subscribe to an author who writes similar in your genre, so you can see what they’re putting out there. Do not copy it but you can mimic in a way to make it yours so you can see that.

Two, get with other authors who write in your genre, and when they do sales, you can swap, newsletter swaps. So, if they’re doing a freebie, they’re going to send you information, so you can put it in your newsletter that month. And when you have a freebie, you have their permission to send them information back. Doing that with 5 to 10 authors, like, a year, that’s a great opportunity to get your name out there to their readers.

The third thing is, if you don’t have anything going on, you do not have to put out a newsletter because readers are unsubscribing so fast. Now, if you haven’t put out a newsletter in six months, maybe an update, just simple words, maybe three pictures at the bottom. You do not have to be in the pictures. You could show your coffee that morning, a beautiful view of the lake that you saw, or, like, you’re headed to the carnival.

Like, people still want to know that you’re human, but you don’t have to be so in the work mode because sometimes I enjoy newsletters when they just update us on life and what they’re doing and it’s like, “Oh, that’s so nice.” Like, they’re not pushing promo down my throat. So, just having a checking in with my readers, “This is what’s going on. This is my schedule. These are my events. And here’s the pictures that I’ve taken lately.” Short, sweet, and simple.

Rachel: I also always really enjoy when newsletters give you, kind of, that personal insight into your favorite authors like, “Oh, you’re a real person.” It’s almost like a behind-the-scenes feature…

Kiki: I love that.

Rachel: …from the author.

Laura: Yeah. You also have Next Realm PR, which is Next Step’s sister company. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what the difference is between the two?

Kiki: Well, unfortunately, we’re getting ready to close it because we don’t have enough need for it. So, I started the Next Realm PR, I want to say, two years after Next Step PR because of my son. My son was a reader and he was like, “Mommy, I want to have a space where we can read and review together.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s a brilliant idea, buddy.”

I think we’ll keep it up, but it’s just not… A lot of YA people aren’t reaching out. I mean, they are, but I don’t have a readership for that. So, I’m at that stage in business, if I don’t have a readership for it, I’m not going to book it. So, I don’t know if we’re going to pull it, put it on hold, what we’re going to do, because I put a lot of effort into that site. And there’s a lot of things going on on there that people still look at. I don’t know.

But I love it. I love, like, having a space to read and review with your kid or a friend or, you know, something of that magnitude. I wanted to have separation though, because it’s definitely 17 and under over there because we, at The Next Step PR, work with spicy, dark… I should have trigger warnings on my website, but, you know, we’re working on that.

But a lot of the content is just very minimal. You have to click more links to get to the darker stuff, so we’re safe there. But, yeah, that’s why that was created and it’s, kind of, sad but, like, you know, the market changes. I got to go with the flow of the market. And, yeah, that’s where we’re at there.

Laura: Well, it does change, and maybe it’ll swing back in the other direction. We’ll have more YA readership there. So, you mentioned, kind of, working on different genres like more of the spicy or darker stuff. How does your approach change for marketing depending on the genre?

Kiki: Readers. I have to follow the readers. Right now, like, if a historical romance person came at me, I wouldn’t have much of an interest because that’s not what’s hot. That’s not what they’re wanting right now. We have over 4,000 readers on all our lists combined because we break them down into genre. Now, I have a historical romance list. It has 400 people on it, but it doesn’t mean that’s what they’re going to want to read.

The other thing we do is readers are booking up so fast right now. We’re, like, three to four months booked out. So, if I’m releasing right now, what is this month? August, we’re August 1st. So, we’re booked up till October, a lot of our readers. So, anything after October, we might, you know, hit those, “Readers would enjoy that.” But, yeah, we’re asking our clients now to book four to six months in advance because we need to get those signups out to our readers because they’re booking up so quickly.

I have an ARC reader on our team that has read 30 ARCs in the month of July. That’s a book a day, people. That’s a book a day. Yeah, I’m not kidding you.

Rachel: I don’t want to say how many books I read in July.

Laura: Definitely not 30.

Rachel: That’s so impressive.

Kiki: It’s very impressive. And one of my best book friends, she can read a book a day. She read 465 books last year. I’m like, “Oh, my God.” And she had a full-time job, but some people can just power through these books, and it’s very impressive, very impressive.

But we’re also in a market right now where it’s voracious reading. They want as much as they can. I am actively going into these Facebook groups, like, promoting signups because that’s why I want to do this podcast is because I’ve been doing this for 10 years but still people who listen to this would be like, “I didn’t even know she existed.”

And I want to grow. I want to have conversations. I have readers and authors that have no idea about us. I had an author, she was like, “I knew about you for two years but I was just scared to contact you.” I’m like, “No, please contact me.” We are never overbooked. We have rules and guidelines to keep our flow going.

And we are a PR company that I know others do, like, 15 promotions in one day. Three is my maximum because I feel, as someone paying me, you want to be seen and heard. I can’t do that if I have 15 people being promoted on that day. And we go the next step higher as we promote and then we share their visibility.

So, my team, myself, we share on our platforms, the work platforms, but then we engage in every single post. So, a three-day release day is huge because we are literally on the computer 7 to 10 hours that day because we’re constantly getting your visibility up and shown. And we work our little butts off for that. And there’s only three of us full-time and one part-time at The Next Step PR. I feel like some people are like, “You have a village.” I’m like, “No, no. No, I don’t. I wish I did but I do not.”

Rachel: You mentioned that we’re in, like, a voracious market right now, and I admittedly am not the biggest romance reader, but I’ve watched the romance market shift a lot recently. Have you noticed that a lot on your side, too? Both the genres and just how… I don’t know. We’ve talked about this on the podcast before, how people are no longer trying to, like, hide their Harlequin book in, like, a magazine. Like, there are proud romance readers now. Have you noticed this as well?

Kiki: There’s a 50/50. I love now, and I’m a big supporter in this, too, because I have a lot of authors that do the discreet cover on a paperback or a hardback, or they’ll do the sexy cover in the e-book because that is going to help them because not everyone is as comfortable. But the romance market is voracious right now because it’s just shifting. But all the genres are shifting. Like, sports romance was…all of a sudden it was huge again. The word of mouth is, like, fire right now.

But one of the things I love as a reader is the different covers you get. And now that’s creating a madness of, “Oh, I got to collect all the versions.” And then you have these book boxes now that are doing these special editions. And that’s a whole ‘nother topic because it is a fight to the death for some of those, especially if, like, this is the only run we’re doing and this is what you get. And then they’re going on eBay and selling for $1,500. So, you have that going on as well and obviously the pirate market is always happening.

But, yes, the voraciousness of these readers, it’s insane. And I love it because I just try to stay in my positive bubble. My job is to protect myself, my team, and my clients. So, we do that very well. We do not get in any of the drama. We back away from it. Half the time, I don’t even know what’s going on. People come to me like, “Did you hear?” And I’m like, “No, but you can tell me because I want to stay far away from it, and I make sure my circle of people stay far away from it.”

Rachel: And I know you said that TikTok can be the bane of your existence, but do you think it has helped in building readership begrudgingly maybe?

Kiki: Both. I’m on the fence. Yes and no. Yes, it has helped a lot of my clients, but it also has backfired on a lot of my clients. I had a client who was so popular on TikTok and then they turn around and one negatively talked about her. And, yeah, separation of TikTok and… I call it TikTokxic sometimes because it is. It’s not always positive. Everybody has opinions.

And, you know, I feel like readers forget sometimes that these authors are people too. They are putting a product out there like anybody putting a product out there. They don’t want to hear your negativity. It is not okay to come to someone’s house and tell them how much you hate their house. No, we don’t need those opinions. Keep those to yourself. Authors see the negative reviews. You don’t have to tag them in it.

Laura: Yeah, we definitely don’t need to be taking authors’ negative reviews, that’s for sure.

Kiki: No.

Laura: You mentioned that you work with different authors at different levels, so, kind of, like, that debut author and also some established ones as well. How does your approach to PR differ from each kind of author?

Kiki: Well, when a new author comes in…which are my favorite, by the way. I love being able—the teaching comes in here—to build them up from the ground up and show them the proper process. I have a free article. I need to publish it somewhere, bouncing around the internet, and I use it for Inkers Con as a freebie. She’s allowed to share it to her people, but that’s my Bible. Like, when people first come in, these are the direct steps you need to do once you have written that book.

Writing the book, I feel like, is the easiest part, even though they’re like, “Oh, my God, it was so hard.” I’m like, “You have no idea what you’re about to jump into,” because these are the steps to get you up and running. Then, you got to put yourself out there. And then five to six months later, you need to publish your book.

I have probably talked 150 authors in the past 10 years out of publishing their books when they wanted to because they didn’t do their homework. They had no followship. And every single one of them has thanked me for it because they did all the steps right.

So, like I said, I have package plans. I would focus on each package plan when having those conversations because a phone call is always needed, whether it’s just a regular phone call or a video call. And we go over the wants and needs. We also can, you know, shape it to what they need.

So, like, for instance, we work with Abby Lyons. If Abby wanted a particular thing and she didn’t want us to do that thing, we just shape her plan, take things in, take things out. We’re definitely a ‘go with the flow” as long as, you know, the work and the time is equal to what that plan that we’re giving out. You know, we can do it, it’s effective and it works for that author.

And then we have some authors that come in, are very established, but they just want to do a release class with us. They just want extra visibility. It’s just the conversation piece of what they want and then telling them, “Hey, check out plans A, B, and C.” And then we just, kind of, go from there. There’s lots of communications and conversations before anything’s booked and final.

Rachel: Now, I’m obviously not going to ask you to give away your entire plan here, but if you had, like, one big piece of advice for an author trying to market a new release, what is that one piece of advice? Not to put you on the spot.

Kiki: I’ll have to think about that one piece of advice.

Rachel: I mean, you can share more than one. I just don’t want to give everything away for free.

Kiki: Right. It would go back to the list, building your own influencer list. And this takes months. This is not something you guys can do in weeks. Once you have your release date, give yourself three to four months to really build your own list. And you don’t go at them. You have to follow them, engage with them, then you can go privately message them and say, “Hey, I’ve been following your content. I love what you do. I’m so excited for you. But if you’re ever interested in working with me, I would love to have you on my list.” One, they love the personal contact from the author.

A lot of these people know me, but not everyone wants to hear from the PR or the publicist. They still want to hear from the author. So, if you have a PA that can be you, then, yay, do that too. They don’t know sometimes. What they don’t know does not kill them. But having that list, going to follow people, engaging and using the hashtags.

Hashtags are huge. They will always be huge. I feel like, when you’re working with your content, you may make sure you always hashtag your name. And then hashtag your genre because then you can see other people. And using your name, it’s just great to have your name out there because if someone goes and searches hashtag Abby Lyons, you’re not seeing millions of people talking about her, and she might be someone you’re targeting, then you can follow the same people. So, you know, just knowledge is power in this.

Rachel: I think the follow first, engage second is really good advice because I find it can be really intimidating to cold call people. But when you follow someone’s content for a while, you, kind of, get an idea of what their vibe is, which I think gives you an easier in.

Kiki: Yes. Well, and here’s something, too. Traditionally, publishing is completely different now. It’s almost non-existent in the way that there’s a more one-on-one market and readers are loving that than dealing with a traditional publishing house. There’s no personalization. You’re just a number up there.

And they’re failing, because I’ve worked with some of them that want to know what I’m doing. And then they are going to come in and do the rest and I’m like, “That’s not how this works. You’re the big house. You have all this money that you’re supposed to be doing all these things. And then I come in and follow up on the things you’re not covering for the client.”

And I feel like they can’t keep up with us. I feel like the indie market is so powerful right now. Also, the romance market is a billion-dollar market now. We are standing on our own feet, and it’s amazing. I just wish there was more recognition, and we’re not just your mommy porn. And just I’m like, “Come on, people.”

Laura: “We’re not just your mommy porn,” should be, like, the title of this episode.

Kiki: Right. I’m okay with that. Sorry, I already forgot what we were talking about. I get on tangents, and I get on a roll. Sorry, sorry.

Laura: Listen, tangents are okay. We welcome the tangents on this podcast.

Kiki: And I stand by all I’ve said so far, so all is good.

Laura: Do you have any advice for authors who are trying to market, kind of, an ongoing series and want to keep up momentum with readers and, kind of, keep the attention on the series?

Kiki: So, there’s two things here. Like, sometimes they’ll come to me a third in the series and it’s a little bit harder. So, say the author’s coming to me on the first, it’s going to be the easiest to market for us because we’re building up the readership. Sometimes when an author then releases Book 2, so many people know about them that they want to read Book 1, and then Book 2, and we do offer that as a company.

But ongoing is harder sometimes because readers don’t want a big, long series until it’s finished. And a lot of authors are like, “Oh, my gosh, I wish they would just join along.” And I’m like, “You all have it easy.” In 2012, 2013, we had to wait a year for the second book. A year, people. Three to four months is not bad. Like, you can do it.

And then also, like I said, it just depends on when the author’s coming in with a PR company. But series are doing good right now. So, as long as the author is booking promotional companies, you don’t always have to use a PR company. There are other just book promotional companies to help with your visibility to get you out there too.

Rachel: Oh, you’ve talked a lot or we’ve talked a lot about ARCs throughout this conversation. And I know that Next Step PR does some ARC management, and I’m really curious what that looks like on your end, and if you have any tips for authors who are interested in working on their own ARC situation, for lack of a better term.

Kiki: So, a lot of people use different things. We’ve used NetGalley, and then we used Direct to Kindle. I’m not a big fan of BookFunnel, because no matter what plan you have, let me repeat this, no matter what plan, how big a plan you have, the EPUB can still be downloaded to your computer. Thus, that person can send it to thousands of people. Yes, you might be able to track that person sending, but are you really going to go after that person?

I think the safest way to send is Direct to Kindle, and you have to send an EPUB. And when you’re collecting your own list, you can add that to your signup, “Hey, add your kindle.com to, you know, your master list or your influencer list. Direct to Kindle is the safest and best way I personally think, as a company, to send ARCs. And how we go through ARCs is, in our signup process, everybody has to put their Goodreads profile. You have to be active on Goodreads to review with us. We go through every Goodreads profile. And if it is a series, we see if you reviewed previously. If you did not, you’re out. If it’s new, we go through.

And if the author doesn’t tell us to cap it, we do not cap it. So, if you signed up with it and the author says everybody’s getting it, everybody’s getting it. We send a “You’ve been selected,” email so they know it’s coming. They have to add our address in and then the next day the ARCs start being… They’re sent out.

And then if it’s an author who’s like, “I’m going to cap it at 100, 150, and she had, like, 400 signups, then we send a, “You’ve been selected,” and “You were not selected at this time.” That’s how our ARC process is handled.

Rachel: Do you advise authors to cap ARC lists? Like, do you find sometimes it can be too many or do you think the more, the merrier?

Kiki: No, I do not believe the more the merrier because we need book sales. So, normally we cap it 100 to 200 depending on the client.

Laura: I think that’s a good idea because, yeah, I could definitely see there’s a lot of people who just see free book and want a free book but then you’re not necessarily getting the return of a review in exchange.

Kiki: And we have a “three strikes, you’re out” rule. So, if you did not upload your reviews… Because we have an uploader that you have to upload your review link, whether it’s Amazon, Goodreads, Kobo, Barnes & Noble, wherever. If you do not get your reviews to us by the third time, you are blacklisted.

Laura: Yeah, that’s probably a smart way of doing it. You mentioned Authors in the Bluegrass before. Can you tell us a little bit about how that event came to be?

Kiki: So, Authors in the Bluegrass was born from all the author events that I went to since 2013. As of right now, I’ve been to 165 author events or conventions. And I was going to, I want to say, averaging 8 to 10 a year, plus some…like, some years were more than others. Obviously COVID, I did not go to many.

But I loved… I don’t know if you girls have been to one, but the feeling of being with your people and the atmosphere, like the love, support, the energy is amazing and just meeting networking, you know, meeting people in the industry, seeing your favorite authors, seeing your friends, seeing your clients, it is the most amazing time of my life. I wish I could do more right now but I can’t. But they were just so amazing.

I think I co-hosted three. I can’t remember. They were Ohio events, so it’s close. I co-hosted those and I was like, “I just got to take the jump and do this.” So, in 2017, Authors in Bluegrass was in April in Lexington, Kentucky. It’s when I had my first. Our second was just this last past year. It got postponed four years, and that was the biggest nightmare of my life.

So, 2022 happened and now we have October 2024 coming, and we hosted at the University of Kentucky football stadium. So, it’s great parking, great space. We do not have a date yet. So, those that are asking, we do have a complete list of authors, and narrators, and vendors. The waitlist is closed for the 2024 event, but on our website, the 2026 interest form is open.

Rachel: Wow, you really work ahead. I’m impressed. Do you have any advice for authors or PR folks who also love the feeling of those events and want to try their hand at starting their own?

Kiki: Yes. A, you can always reach out to me. B, there is some amazing groups on Facebook. That’s actually how I learned about so many because there’s an event…it’s called Author Events Around the World, and it has an Excel spreadsheet starting from 2024 into 2026. And it has the when, the where, who’s hosting. It has an invite list so the author can go, like, click and join any of the ones that they want, has contact information for each host.

So, yes, it is hard. It is a big, big deal, because you have to worry about taxes. You have to worry about contracts. It’s a lot of money to deal with the hotel, food. So, you really have to know what you’re doing, and you have to have an established name because not everybody’s going to sign up for them because there are quite a few events, and I’m going to say this publicly because I know that it has happened, that they thought that they could do it, and then they stole the money and they ran. And then they went black. So, there is a lot of fraud out there.

So, if you are going to host one, be prepared to make sure that you are ready to do this. And if you’re going to go to one, do your research, ask around, ask how many tickets are sold. If you’re an author wanting to go to these things, you know, make sure you join that group and also do your research.

And my biggest thing is I ask how many tickets are being sold because you want at least 300 tickets to be sold for an event that you’re going to because you’re traveling with costs: airplane, hotel, your books. You know, authors are not going to these to make money. They are not. It is not a moneymaker. They’re there to network and grow their readership. Now, I have had some who have left in the positive unless you’re Colleen Hoover coming in hot. I mean, yeah, so you’re not making money at these, and it’s more of a social gathering, building your readership, and networking.

Rachel: And it sounds like a lot of work, and we do advise, if this is something that interests someone, that they either volunteer or, like you said, you co-hosted first. You think that’s a really good way to, kind of, get the insider.

Kiki: Absolutely. You need to go to a few first, start getting ideas, co-host, or volunteer. Absolutely, because I just announced today I’m co-hosting another one that’s happening in New Orleans next September, and I’m really excited about it, so that’s going to be fun. Because I was like, I can’t do it but I will help you, so we’re going to co-host. Yeah. And it’s called…Dark Star Con is what it’s called.

Laura: Okay. Yeah, I was going to say, can you announce or is it still a secret?

Kiki: No, it’s not a secret. Dark Star Con is in New Orleans in September 2024. And it’s a three-day event with panels, all kinds of fun events, award ceremonies, and it’s going to be fun.

Laura: Is that a genre-focused one?

Kiki: No, it’s an everyone is welcome.

Laura: That’s exciting.

Kiki: Yes.

Laura: New Orleans. We should check it out.

Kiki: Come with, girls.

Laura: Add New Orleans to our conference bucket list.

Kiki: Yes.

Rachel: That list is long.

Laura: So, you’ve given us so many great pieces of advice for listeners already, but if you could, kind of, leave our listeners with one piece of advice, what would it be? No pressure.

Kiki: No pressure, guys. No pressure. My biggest piece of advice is stay positive. Don’t lose hope. There’s someone out there going through whatever you’re going through, whether you’re a reader, a vendor, a writer, you know, an aspiring author. And don’t be afraid to ask questions. I feel like so many people are so scared, and I’m like, “Knowledge is power.” I say it all the time. The more you know, the better off your business is going to be.

If you’re a reader looking for new authors, go reach out to them. They want to talk to you. Authors, if you’re looking for a writing partner or just information, you know, ask those questions. There’s Facebook groups, too, that have writing support.

Inkers Con is a huge one. Alessandra Torre does a great job with helping authors, helping in any way that she can. And her group is so great. I send all my clients into that group because, in the search bar, you can literally search for everything and there is an answer there for you, especially my debut who there’s some things I still can’t help them with, but they need to ask those questions in there. And, you know, vendors are new. Like, bookish vendors, oh, my gosh, I’m obsessed. Like, they have so much of my money because I’m like, “I love that. I want that.”

And book boxes are huge into our community now, and we’re getting ready to launch a big surprise this fall with some of our authors. So, you guys get first knowledge of this. But yeah, we have partnerships on our website. So, if you guys ever want to check out thenextsteppr.com, check out all our links and tabs. We have partnerships. We have our event. You know, freebie call with me for 15 minutes. And, yeah, that’s pretty much it. I’m always willing and open to talk books, guys. Always.

Rachel: And I think the, “Don’t be afraid to ask questions,” is such a great piece of advice because if there’s one thing that I have learned since working with the indie author community is that there’s no… Like, indie authors aren’t shy about sharing their knowledge. Like, pun wildly intended, indie authors tend to be open books.

Kiki: Yes. And like here, like, I took a step, found you guys on Twitter, messaged the thing, and I said, “I don’t know what I need to do or who I need to talk to.” And then you all were so great to respond back to me. Like, I just took a chance because that’s what I do. Like, I am not afraid. If you guys told me no, I would be like, “You know what? It’s okay. I’ll move on to the next thing.” But you guys were, like, so supportive, “Kiki, let us help you in this area.” And then Terrence is, like, hooking me up with all the podcast stuff, and I’m sending it to all my clients.

I’m like, “The more we could do, the better.” And I am one of those. I’m a team player. I want the best for all of us in this community. You know, I started my company on my own dime. Don’t have a loan. You know, from teacher to non-reader to PR. Like, it’s great. And the fact that you guys were so open to work with me, I can’t thank you guys enough.

Laura: Yeah. Well, we’re so glad we got to talk to you. And, yes, for anyone listening, like, the indie author community is so welcoming and so helpful. So, hit up those Facebook groups, ask your questions, and don’t be afraid to ask for help.

Kiki: Yes.

Rachel: And before we say goodbye, I have two questions for you. One, you mentioned you are now a voracious reader, so I would love to know what you’re reading right now. And two, where can our listeners find you online?

Kiki: Okay, I’m reading this right now, “The Hunt in Elusion” by M. L. Philpitt. She does dark mafia retellings of old Sleeping Beauty hunt. This is Sleeping Beauty. We have Beauty and the Beast. It’s a four-book series. And I’m into the dark romance right now. Like, I did not think I’d like it as much as I thought I would. And I have triggers. So, this is a client’s book, so my team reads it first, and they’re like, “It’s Kiki-safe, you can read it.” And then what was the second question? I’m sorry.

Rachel: Just where our listeners can find you online.

Kiki: Oh, so the company, The Next Step PR, if you look on Google, you can find us. We’re on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok, and it’s @thenextsteppr all one word. And then my personal stuff is Bookish with Kiki. I have a Facebook page and an Instagram page. And I love connecting with other people. I still read for other people, not just my clients. You know, I don’t have much free time because I still have a five-year-old at home. So, it’s very active in the Chatfield house. But I love reading when I can. I read such a range of things that it’s just… I’m not a big historical romance though, but I will read all the other things. I love thrillers, suspenses, mysteries, dark romance, all the things.

But, yes, hit me up anytime on social media. And then our website is our biggest because it has everything, all our links, all our lists, all our signups, Authors in the Bluegrass information, and then it has my email, you know, if you need to connect with me on there as well, thenextsteppr.com.

Rachel: Amazing. And we will include links to you as much as we can in the show notes. And, Kiki, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. This has been delightful.

Kiki: I loved it. Let’s do it again.

Rachel: Amazing.

Laura: Thank you for listening to the “Kobo Writing Life Podcast.” If you’re interested in learning more about Kiki and The Next Step PR, we will include links in our show notes. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please be sure to rate, review, and subscribe. And if you’re looking for more tips on growing your self-publishing business, you can find us at kobowritinglife.com. Be sure to follow us on socials. We are @KoboWritingLife on Facebook and Twitter, and @kobo.writing.life on Instagram.

Rachel: This episode was hosted by Laura Granger and Rachel Wharton with production by Terrence Abrahams. Editing is provided by Kelly Robotham. Our theme music is composed by Tear Jerker. And a huge thanks to Kiki for being a wonderful guest today. If you’re ready to start your publishing journey, sign up today at kobo.com/writinglife. Until next time, happy writing.