KWL – 231 – How to Succeed as a Hybrid Author with Rebecca Zanetti

#231 – How to Succeed as a Hybrid Author with Rebecca Zanetti

New York Times bestselling author Rebecca Zanetti is on the podcast this week to discuss her writing process and what her experience has been like as a hybrid author.

New York Times bestselling author Rebecca Zanetti is on the podcast this week to discuss her writing process and what her experience has been like as a hybrid author. Rebecca talks to us about her decision to try indie publishing and why she chose to self-publish her most recent series, The Anna Albertini Files, she discusses the challenges of juggling multiple publishing contracts as well as her indie publishing schedule, and she gives us some great insight into why so many successful writers have a history of practicing law.

• Rebecca tells us about her career path, from lawyer to curator to professor, and how a snow storm sparked her writing career into fruition
• She explains why she moved into the hybrid author space after starting her career as a traditionally published author, and why she chose to self-publish her latest series
• Rebecca discusses the advantages and challenges of being a hybrid author, what surprised her most when starting to publish indie, and what she enjoys most about indie publishing 
• She tells us about her writing process and how she tackles the first chapter of every novel, and she gives some great advice on how to plot a multi-book series and develop compelling “slow-burn” characters
• Rebecca talks about what she would like to see in the future of publishing, why she doesn’t pay attention to genre trends and predictions, and she tells us how the pandemic has affected her writing business
• As a former lawyer, Rebecca gives us some great insight into the correlation between practicing law and being a successful writer and what surprising skills both professions require

Useful Links
Rebecca’s Website
Follow Rebecca on Facebook and Instagram
The Anna Albertini Files Series
Driven
Dark Protectors
Scorpius Syndrome
1001 Dark Night Novellas
Vellum
Romance Author Mastermind Conference
The Nora Roberts Tweet
Torpedo Ink
The Brown Sisters
You (on Netflix)
Longmire (on Netflix)

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Episode Transcript

Transcription provided by SpeechPad

Stephanie: Hey, writers, you’re listening to the “Kobo Writing Life” podcast, where we’re bringing you insights and inspiration for growing your self-publishing business. We’re your hosts, I’m Stephanie.

Joni: And I’m Joni. On this week’s episode, we are talking to New York Times and USA Today bestselling author, Rebecca Zanetti. She’s published more than 50 novels, which have been translated into several languages and sold millions of copies worldwide. Her books have received Publishers Weekly starred reviews, one RT review Choice Awards, and been featured in Entertainment Weekly, Woman’s World, and Women’s Day magazines. She’s also been favorably reviewed in both “The Washington Post” and “The New York Times” Book Reviews.

Stephanie: So we wanted to talk to Rebecca about her latest series, The Albertini Files, because she just recently self-published this series and it was something that kind of put her out of her comfort zone, not something she’s written before in the past. So she talked to us a bit about that about her writing.

And also, we asked the question, because we have been discovering that there’s a lot of romance writers that are also in a past life that were lawyers so we wanted to know what is the correlation between those two things, and I think you’re gonna enjoy her answer. So without further ado, here is the rest of the interview.

Thank you, Rebecca, for joining us on the podcast today.

Rebecca: Thanks for having me.

Stephanie: Before we get into it, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?

Rebecca: Sure. I live in Northern Idaho up in the mountains, I’m married with two kids. They’re both home right now. They’re teenagers and they’re both in college, but they’re home. I started writing in 2009 and I sold my first book that year and the first book came out in 2011. I’ve also been a lawyer and an art curator and a college professor and it all just comes into the writing so it’s fun. And I’ve been married 23 years so I should mention big tone.

Stephanie: So I’m interested since you started considering writing in 2009, can you talk about your journey? Like were you writing before that and then you just decided to publish your book or what was it like?

Rebecca: I always wanted to be a writer but there’s a lot of other things I wanted to do too like study law and be a lawyer. And so we got snowed in the very end of 2008, 2009 and it just, it was a good time just to sit down and try to write that first book. And so I did and then once I was writing, there was no like stopping.

So I wrote like three or four books and then in different genres and then just waited to see which one sold first. And it was a paranormal book, which everybody said don’t write paranormal. So I learned right away not to listen to everybody and write what I wanted to write. So that first paranormal book sold to Kensington, and the series is actually still going on. We have like 14 right now with a couple of spin-offs so it worked out.

Joni: Can you tell us what made you decide to self-publish with Disorderly Conduct? You said it was a little bit different to anything that you’ve written before. Was that the impetus decide behind deciding to publish it differently?

Rebecca: Yeah, it was. And I’m contracted right now so I have I have two series with Kensington, which are frontlist, and I just finished recently a series with Grand Central. And so I just felt it was time to try it. I want to launch a series and this series is very different…well, I should say somewhat different than when I’m writing for anybody else.

And also, it’s very light-hearted and funny and it seemed like this was the time with everyone kind of stuck at home in the world and turmoil to write something light-hearted and funny. So it was just the timing really worked out. And I was ready, I was ready to put this book out there. So the first book is called “Disorderly Conduct,” and like I said, there’s just more humor in it. I often have humor, but not this much. So it just was a time.

Stephanie: You mentioned that you had previously self-published three books from a series you had with your publisher, why did you decide to kind of continue on in that series?

Rebecca: Well, what happened was the series is called a Scorpio Syndrome and it’s about a pandemic. And it’s much more apocalyptic. I mean, a lot of people, it’s like most of the world dies.

And so, oddly enough, even before COVID, we had trouble with selling the print books. So people would hear pandemic and apocalyptic and they were just over it, but once we got people to the books, you know, they bought them all. So it was just a matter of, okay, how do we get people to this subject matter when they’re really romances like the rest of my romances?

And so, we decided to after the first three books, they just weren’t working that well in print, so we were gonna go to ebook, but then, you know, I had the dark protectors with Kensington and I sold a romantic suspense series called “Deep Bots,” to Kensington and so we had two series going and I thought, you know, “What does everybody think about me trying to self-publish the next three? I just want to give it a shot. Everybody I know has gone hybrid.” I wanted to try it using an existing series with already strong ebook fan base seemed like the smart way to go about it.

And, you know, Kensington’s always been really, really supportive of me as a writer, and we’ve tried different things for the last 10 years. And they’re like, “Okay, yeah, give it a shot, see how it goes.” And so, you know, that’s why. And so it worked out really well. And I was happy I did it and I learned a lot in the process.

Joni: What did you find were some of the challenges with like, making that move to hybrid, and some of the things that maybe your publisher was dealing with before that are now entirely on you.

Rebecca: You know, I like having my publisher do most of the work besides the writing, I’ve learned that for sure. I found a good editor, I found a really good cover artist, I found a great publicist. But that’s still a lot of extra juggling that I wasn’t doing or that I’m not doing with my traditionally published books. And so I definitely am staying traditional.

What I really like about the self-pubbing is, you know, shorter timeframes. You don’t need to turn a book in 10 to 12 months in advance. And I actually really liked the formatting. I know a lot of people don’t, but I had a ball playing on Vellum and figuring out, you know, what little designs to put in, and then getting paid once a month.

So with traditional contracts, you know, you get your advances, and you try to space those out so you’re budgeting. And then you get royalties either twice a year or quarterly. So you try to space those out, too. But with self-pubbing, you get paid every month, no matter what. Kobo sends you your check, you know, right into your bank account. And I really like that, because I’m not that good at budgeting I’ve learned. And so that’s, for me, the biggest benefit is that just assured monthly income is very, very, very nice.

Stephanie: I’ve noticed recently that a lot of lawyers tend to like write romance. What do you think is the correlation between being a lawyer and then moving into fiction? If there is an answer.

Rebecca: I have thought about it a lot, because there’s so many of us who are lawyers, and I think it’s a couple of things. One, a lot of people go to law school because they like learning, they like school, but they don’t necessarily want to go fight in a courtroom. And the other thing is, it’s the same skill set. You’re trying to convince somebody of something using the fewest amount of words possible.

So, you know, when you’re in trial, you’re trying to convince a jury of something, when you’re in writing a book, you’re trying to convince the reader of something, and you’re trying to get people involved and you’re also trying to persuade if you think about it. So I think it’s very much the same skill set.

Joni: I love that I would never have made that connection. And you said that you used to teach also.

Rebecca: I did. So I was a lawyer and then we had the two kids and so I didn’t want to worry about billable hours and all that, but I always figured I’d go back to law. So I started teaching at the college as a college professor teaching law. And that worked well with the kids, you know, because then, you know, kids are young. And for a while, I only taught at night, so I’d be home with them during the day and then Tom would become at night.

And so I’d teach night classes and then I was also a hearing examiner for the county once a month. So that was fun so I kind of kept the law going. But I liked that interaction and I loved teaching, which I didn’t know that I loved but absolutely loved it. And so when the books took off, and so I had to make a choice. And so I chose the books, and I really missed teaching. But then, you know, my career grew to a point where I could teach about writing or give workshops or do masterclasses so that worked out ultimately. So I still get that kind of interaction and rush when, you know, we’re not all at home.

Joni: Yeah, it’s definitely different now. Something that we’ve found that with a lot of our most successful authors, it does come along with writing multi-book series, and I know that that’s how you write as well. Do you have any tips for writing those very engaging multi book series?

Rebecca: Absolutely. Well, first, right, we want to write and then don’t forget those slow burn characters, because those characters that somehow often just land on the page in you know, first couple books, they’ll burn throughout the series and grow. And then you know, the fans really want those books. And those books are the ones that, you know, if you haven’t hit a list yet, those are usually the ones that hit a list.

And it’s fun to grow those characters over a few books, you know, you get more time with them. And so the reader knows them better by the time you get to their book, and they’re invested. So I think that slow-burn character is really important.

Tying books together, however, you do it and like, you know, have a master class that goes into this, but it can be any way. It can be from doing families to, you know, towns to anything. And I think this series really are a way to build your fan base no matter how you put it together so I highly recommend it.

Stephanie: What are your writing processed like? Does it differ between every book or do you kind of have like the same?

Rebecca: I think I have the same, I sit down and since I write romances no matter which genre it is, my first chapter is either the couple meeting, or meeting up again. And so the first chapter is always that fresh, you know, seeing each other. And I read a lot of those first chapters on airplanes, or at least I used to. Having no idea about the book, or the characters or the plot, and they just write this how two people meet up. And I really enjoy that I have tons of them in a file somewhere, and then when it’s time to recontact, I take them out and look at them and think, okay, I want to write this one. And then I have to figure out who these people are, why they’re there and you know, what keeps them apart and what the external conflict is. So that’s my bigger process and my smaller processes like get up and I write every day.

Stephanie: Do you write quickly?

Rebecca: I do. I always read quickly as a kid, and then law school really teaches you to be quickly and so I think that that translates into writing quickly. I do have carpal tunnel, which you know, most of us end up getting at some point, and so I’ll probably have to slow down at some point, but I haven’t had to yet.

Joni: We’ve been talking a lot about NaNoWriMo Kobo just because that was a big thing in November. And I know for a lot of us, we find it difficult to create that everyday writing habit. Was that something that came naturally to you when you started writing or was it a bit of a discipline to sit down and actually make that habit?

Rebecca: It’s definitely a discipline. And when I first started, it was when I was working, and the kids were in every sport you can imagine and they didn’t draw of yet. And so, you know, in the beginning, it was a way of trying to find the time to write whether it was in you know, the carpool lane for an hour or at basketball practice. So I think getting into the mood of when can I write, when can I write, when can I write really actually translates into a nice structure later on, when all of a sudden you have time, like okay, I can write so I think that helped me build on okay, now I have time, how am I going to structure this time?

I just had a COVID test a few weeks ago, I got exposed. So you know how you have to get in your car and you’re in line for like an hour. I took my laptop and I wrote the whole time because I was just sitting there in the car, waiting to get you know, things shoved up my nose, which is not fun. I heard the test is nicer now, but it was not fun. But, you know, even then I’m like, “Okay, well, I have an hour, I might as well write.”

Joni: I’m pretty impressed that you did that especially because it’s kind of nerve-wracking to be sitting waiting for the test.

Rebecca: It was. I was negative by the way.

Joni: Good, good.

Stephanie: I feel like Joni has had a few tests so far.

Joni: Only one but I agree. It was not the nicest.

Stephanie: I was just wondering, what do you think has been the best thing you’ve done for your writing business?

Rebecca: The best thing I’ve done, I think it’s putting everything you have into this one book. The book I’m writing right now is where I put everything. I don’t save anything for the next book, or the next series or whatever. More ideas will come. I put everything into this book and just let it all go.

I think honestly, that’s been the best thing for the writing, and I do think there’s some luck in the timing of everything. When I first sold to Kensington, it was right when ebooks are getting big and I wrote that almost that self-publish, you know, ebook way, except I was traditional with it. So you know, that was pretty good timing and that was lucky.

Stephanie: Are you releasing books once a year or was it more often, even though it was traditionally published?

Rebecca: It was more often. And then I ended up writing for two or three publishers so then it was really more often.

Stephanie: Do you find it hard to juggle when you’re writing for different publishers?

Rebecca: Yeah, I do. Because if you think about it, if you’re with one publisher, they know your schedule, they know that you have edits due so they’re not going to send you promotion stuff. But when you’re with two or three, they have no clue of your other schedule and, you know, doesn’t really matter to them. And it shouldn’t because they’re worried about their’s so it is harder to juggle. I think that two public publishers is plenty, three was real tough.

Joni: I’m curious, this is kind of a challenging question but we like to ask at this time of year. So you’ve been in the publishing business for quite a while and have probably seen quite a few changes. Do you have any predictions or ideas about the next 5, 10 years of publishing?

Rebecca: Oh, man, I have no idea. I would like to see all the ebook retailers kind of on a level field. So I mean, there’s no question where most of my money comes from, and I would like to see other ones grow. I think competition’s really important.

And so I see that happening now and I would like to see that really happen in the future. That’s kind of my wish list. I hear a lot of predictions from other people about what genre is in this and I just don’t pay any attention to that because, you know, I think you need to write what you what you want to write. And who knows what’s gonna happen after this COVID thing? Are we all going down to hunker down more, or once there’s a vaccine, are we all just going to go out in the world like crazy and have more book signings? I just don’t know.

I would love to go travel somewhere right now. I don’t know about you too but yeah. So I don’t know. I mean, there’s no doubt that the bigger publishers are combining more than was just another one so who knows?

Joni: How has this year been for you in terms of like things like book signings and things that you would normally do in person?

Rebecca: They’ve all been canceled. Everything has been canceled so I’ve been home. What’s actually here, you know, when there was the first lockdown, our son came home from college, and our daughter was a senior. And it was, in a way, it was nice for a couple of months for all of us to be together again. But now they’re both home again, and they’re ready to go back to school.

And, you know, I understand that I was young a million years ago so I’m kind of ready to get out too. But yeah, even most of my conferences and signings have been canceled through at least the middle of next year so that’s been a little different. We’ve all learned how to Zoom.

Stephanie: Have you done online conferences and things like that?

Rebecca: Yeah, I’m actually doing one right now. I’m taking a break from an online conference, Romance Author Mastermind right now. So yeah.

Joni: Our manager’s there, Tara.

Rebecca: I will.

Joni: That’s awesome. It’s definitely a little bit different. Like, there’s good and bad. I think there’s some good, but it’s definitely like, there’s something lacking when you don’t get to speak to people. And I imagine it’s more so when you’re talking about connecting with readers. But if you find that your sales have not suffered in terms of like, people are staying home and reading, right, so even without those promotional tours.

Rebecca: Yeah, I haven’t seen any decline in sales. But keep in mind traditionally published if we’re going to get hit, it’s usually a year later. So I really wouldn’t know until the beginning next year, but I don’t think…well, knock on wood, we’ll see. But launching the self-published series was also strategic that way to kind of keep, you know, everything good.

Stephanie: You mentioned that you will hope to see kind of like all ebook stores being like real competitors for Amazon. What’s your kind of opinion on releasing widely, rather than limiting your books to one platform? I don’t know if you have done exclusive before or what?

Rebecca: I’ve always been wide. Everything I’ve done has been wide, except for the “1001 Dark Nights” novella. I think –  novellas – I think those are exclusive for 90 days, and then they go wide but that’s a publisher decision and they get a lot of marketing from that, I think, but other than that, I’ve gone wide with everything. Your readers know what to expect so if you’ve always gone wide, that’s what they expect is what they want and that’s good too. You got to kind of support the readers and help them choose their own path as well I think.

Stephanie: What do you think has like made you so interested in romance? Is it because you were a reader before or like the kind of stories that you write, there’s always a happy ever after, hopefully.

Rebecca: You know, I started when I started reading as a kid, it was always mysteries, you know, like Nancy Drew, Trixie Beldon. And then I discovered my mom’s bag of books from a grocery store. Those were in an old brown bags and there was kissing. And I was like, that was it for me. I knew I wanted kissing in books forever. And I like the happy ending. And, you know, I like to know that the end of the book, I’m not going to be crying.

And so even I read a lot of you know, I read some sci-fi, I read thrillers. I love Dean Koontz. But he has great romances in his books. People don’t realize that, but I love his books for the romance and the, you know, adventure. And so I don’t know. For me, I just if I’m going to spend time on something, I want to be happy at the end of it.

My youngest sister, we used to watch movies together and so I’d be watching a movie and she’d want the TV when they were younger. And she said, “Oh, you know, he dies at the end.” And I’m like, “Oh, man,” and so I’d get rid of the TV and go do something else. And she’d be making it up. It took me years to figure that out but that’s how she got the TV because she knew I wouldn’t watch it if one of the characters if it wasn’t a happy ending. So I kind of feel the same way about books.

Joni: So you touched a little bit on how being a lawyer in your training as a lawyer relates to that kind of persuasion thing. How else does that come into your writing? Because I imagine there’s probably some insider knowledge that you have that’s kind of fun to play around with and in fiction writing.

Rebecca: It is and then that new series to an opportunity Albertini file she’s a lawyer so actually get to use that knowledge and do some courtroom scenes. And, you know, some crazy things happen when you’re a lawyer. It’s a weird environment and so being able to kind of exaggerate those and put them on the page is a lot of fun.

Also the analytical mind, you know, you learn how to analyze everything as a lawyer. So you can do the same thing with your books and with characters and why they feel what they feel and go deeper and deeper POV because of that training I think.

Joni: Yeah, I think that’s really cool. I think that I imagine that it helps a lot with character development in terms of you’ve maybe seen like the most extreme versions of humanity in your career.

Rebecca: True. Very true.

Stephanie: Have you seen Nora Roberts on Twitter? So someone was explaining to Nora Roberts that she doesn’t know how to publish. Like, she’s publishing too slow. And I’m like, Nora Roberts publishes four books a year, and this person was trying to be like, “No, I think you’re doing it wrong.” Have you ever gotten feedback from a reader being like, “You’re writing too slowly”?

Rebecca: Real quick, what did Nora say?

Stephanie: She had a beautiful response. Hold on, I’m gonna try to find that.

Joni: She was very, very classy about it.

Rebecca: Really?

Joni: It was something along the lines of, “I’ve been writing for a long time. Thank you for your feedback.”

Stephanie: And she kind of is like, “You don’t work in publishing, you don’t know what you’re saying.” And like, “What you think is not a fact basically at the end of the day.” I’m gonna see if…

Rebecca: I love that.

Joni: Yeah. Well, the drama on Twitter is pretty great.

Rebecca: Yeah, I have to admit, I actually, I deleted Twitter last year, and it was it just boulders off of my shoulders. I didn’t have to worry anymore about Twitter. And I wasn’t even doing my own Twitter, but it was still a relief.

Joni: I saw yesterday actually, seen more publishing drama on Twitter yesterday, but it was an author that had just like a reader had posted their Goodreads thing, and they were like, “I got X% through this book, and I don’t really care about it.” She didn’t tag the writer or anything. But the author, like kind of weighed and was like, “Well, thanks for trying, I care about this book.” And it’s like, “Oh, maybe you don’t need to do that.”

Rebecca: No.

Stephanie: It’s just like, people think social media is there for you to engage with people, but I don’t know. Like, what’s your kind of opinion on social media? Do you stick to one platform that you would like or have you just been like, “No, I’m not gonna deal with any of this”?

Rebecca: Oh, yeah. I’m on Facebook and Instagram. And I was on Twitter for a while, a long time. It’s interesting, you do interact, but I always keep it professional, you know, I don’t go and they tell you never go in. And there are some very political actually authors, and I don’t do any of that I don’t do. It’s just about the books and fun. And, you know, the deer, the turkeys, or the bear around my house, it’s that kind of stuff and I like that.

JR Ward says about reviews, like, she doesn’t belong in the review space, because that’s readers corresponding with readers. She goes, “I don’t belong there. That’s their thing.” And I agree with her. I learned a long time ago that sometimes or very often a review is more about what’s going on in the reviewer’s life than in my book or character, and, you know, that’s fair, but that’s their place. And for interaction, I do interact with my street team, my Facebook street team, but again, it’s about books, about pets, you know, nothing stressful or what’s going to cause any problems. I started writing during the time of social media, so I don’t know what it was like before, but it does look a little peaceful before.

Joni: Yeah, I think it’s a general rule of if you don’t have something nice to say, then don’t tag the author.

Stephanie: It’s also bold of them to do that in the first place I’m gonna say.

Rebecca: Or their publisher and their agent which has happened to me before when I was on Twitter.

Stephanie: We’re gonna…well, something more happy. What have you been loving lately? It can be a book, movie, TV show.

Rebecca: I have been reading…let’s see. Christine Feehan’s Torpedo Ink Series. I’ve been reading “The Brown Sisters,” by Talia…what’s her last name?

Stephanie: Talia Hibbert?

Rebecca: Yes. Love those. Been watching…well, I watched “You,” all of seasons, one and two, of “You” on Netflix. And we’re watching “Longmire” because my husband and I, we both look for something we could watch together before we go to sleep. And it’s hard because he likes Sports Center and I like sci-fi. So we agreed…we watched all the “Cheers,” watched all “The Office,” now we’re watching all of “Longmire.” So next, I don’t know. So that’s what’s happening here in Zanetti house.

Stephanie: “You” season three soon. What’s your opinion on “You?” I’m curious.

Rebecca: Well, I thought it was fascinating. I mean, just being in his head. And then it was interesting is he actually in the first season, he made her life better for quite a while, which was quite the twist until he didn’t. I thought it was funny. It had some great dark humor in it. And it was fascinating to me. It kept me entertained. So that’s what I need.

Stephanie: I was really impressed how they were able to carry that thread of him to a season two because it’s kind of impossible for that happen, I think but they did it really well. And so I’m excited to see where it goes.

Rebecca: Me too. And I have an idea who number three who it is, but I won’t say it on here. I’ll tell you later if you want and that could be totally wrong but I have an idea who the woman is.

Stephanie: Yeah. What can readers expect from you next?

Rebecca: Well, “Bailed Out,” which is the second Anna Albertini book, comes out in a couple of weeks. And then “Driven,” which is the fourth Deep Ops book, comes out in January. And then we have a Dark Protectors book, “Rebel’s Karma,” which is Benny’s book, which releases in June.

Joni: And where can readers find you online? Not Twitter.

Rebecca: Not Twitter, but I’m on Facebook and Instagram, and I have a website with a contact form and a newsletter.

Joni: Awesome. We will include all those links.

Stephanie: I have one question I forgot to ask because we got connected through I think your PR agency. And I was wondering, like, well, how was it like working with an agency for your self-published titles? Is it kind of the same as working with a publisher? What’s your experience with that?

Rebecca: It’s great because I don’t know what I’m doing very well. And so it’s great saying, “Hey, what do we do? What do you think? What should we do?” And, you know, Social Butterfly is really good at saying, “This is what we should do.” And so I’ve been learning a lot through working with Jen.

And, you know, it’s a lot of the same stuff the publisher does, but I haven’t seen this much of it before. Usually, I’m like, “Okay, great. Good luck, let me know,” you know, and now I’m kind of more involved in I see more of what’s happening and so it makes a little more sense if that helps. But I am very appreciative of the fact that I can hire somebody who knows what they’re doing to do that. There’s not a lot of trial and error on my part, which there would be if I was trying to figure this out while also trying to write a lot of books. I’m just looking at my list, and it’s just a lot.

Joni: It is a lot. I’m very impressed by everyone who does this because it’s so much. You have to be a little bit of everything.

Stephanie: Have you planned books, like three years from now?

Rebecca: Yeah.

Joni: I mean, that’s always good.

Stephanie: Thanks, Rebecca, for joining us today.

Rebecca: Thanks for having me. This was fun. It was nice to interact.

Stephanie: Thank you for listening to the “Kobo Writing Life” podcast. If you’re looking for Rebecca’s titles, we will have a link to them on our blog or if you’re interested in learning how to grow yourself, visit kobowritinglife.com.

Joni: This episode was produced by Joni Di Placido and Stephanie McGrath with production assistance from Rachel Wharton. Editing is done by Kelly Rowbotham, music is provided by Tearjerker, and big thanks to Rebecca Zanetti for being a guest today.

Stephanie: If you’re ready to start your self-publishing journey today, sign up for free at kobo.com/writinglife. Until next time, happy writing.